Sunny 16 Rule

[Black Elk]

In preparation for my New Mexico trip I have been poking around the Inet for shooting landscapes in bright, sunny light. I ran across the Sunny 16 Rule. For example. On a sunny day at f16 you would set the shutter speed at 100 and the ISO at 100, or 200/200, etc. Is anyone familiar with this? Have you used this "rule"?

Thanks much.

 

[bdbits]

Yes, that 'rule' has been around for a long, long time. It's main use was to help determine exposure when you don't have a light meter. Most if not all modern camera bodies have light meters built in so you can determine exposure, as did film bodies by the time I got one in the 1980s. I suppose you could still use it as a starting point, but I would trust the meter and/or always-live-view EVF/display more.

 

[WoodWorks]

Plus, I think that rule emerged back in days of large 8x10 cameras. Think of the huge boxes photographers like Ansel Adams used to lug around. Setting your aperture to f/16 on any modern ASP-C or FF camera would likely result in considerable diffraction.

 

[bdbits]

Isn't diffraction a property of the lens? I am not sure and have to go somewhere in a few minutes. If I am not too lazy I will try and look this up later.

But I do agree on most modern fullframe gear f16 would probably create a generous helping of diffraction.

 

[Drd1135]

I remember using that rule with my old spotmatic film cameras. There was a whole set of rules with increasingly larger apertures for different scenarios. I’d use the meter in a modern camera, but it brings back memories.

 

[Richard Crowe]

The f/16 at the shutter speed of 1/ASA (pre-runner to ISO) in bright sun was and is a pretty valid way o expose. Of course that you need to recoginze the variants of brightness such as cloudy bright f/11 at 1/ASA, cloudy dull f/11 at 1/ASA and so on...

Most photographers could not afford exposure meters and there were no cameras with built-in exposure meters. Of course, most folks were shooting black and white film which had a decent leeway for exposure variations.

Exposure problems reared their ugly heads when a person shot color film, especially Kodachrome transparencies. First, you had to do some math in your head to use the Sunny 16 rule with the original 35mm Kodachrome which had a daylight ASA of 10 - so the sunny 16 rule would be f/16 at 1/10, since the ASA of daylight Kodachrome was originally 10. You would have to convert that to a more usable exposure of f/5.6 at 1/80 second. Since many cameras had apertures no larger than f/4.5 gaining sufficient shutter speed was a task. The photo community was overjoyed at the advent of ASA 25 Kodachrome but, the exposure leeway was so small that shooting without bracketing was taking a chance.

However bracketing was a chore since auto exposure bracketing was still far in the future and it was expensive since every frame of film cost money. It was only professionals like photographers who worked for National Geographic, with unlimited film budgets, who could afford to bracket!

Having survived those days, I laugh at photographers of today (including myself) who regularly shoot at ISO 4,000 or 6,400 and up, then complain about a little noise

 

[WNG]

You won't be needing to apply the Sunny 16 Rule on your New Mexico trip. With modern digital cameras, the built-in exposure capabilities will give you the correct exposure right through your EVF. Just be sure to disable DRO/Auto DRO, in order to be sure WYSIWYG, in your RAW files. DRO only affects JPEGs and it'll throw your composition off by under exposing.

With bright sunny conditions, just try to shoot at base ISO for the cleanest images. And depending on your focal length and steady hands, there is no reason to must shoot at 1/100 sec.
Another more useful 'rule' if you're shooting hand-held, is to set your shutter speed to be at least 1/Focal Length in order to reduce blurry photos. (unless you have IBIS/IS.)

 

[Ad Dieleman]

I use the Sunny 16 rule all the time when the sun shines: it prevents overexposure that may occur all too readily in contrasty scenes with a lot of shadows. I set my camera at ISO 100, f/8 and 1/320 s. Wait a minute, shouldn't that be 1/400 s? Well, my camera's ISO ratings are a bit inflated (like shown at DxOMark) so it's more like ISO 70 in reality. Of course any other combination like f/5.6 and 1/640 s at ISO 100 is equally valid.

 

[Black Elk]

Thanks for all of the very good technical responses. Since I know I will be doing photos in very sunny conditions, I wanted to reinforce that I was on the right track. I understand these are good starting points and the f-stop/ISO/shutter speed may need adjusting depending on the situation. I appreciate your time and knowledge.

 

[Jeep Captain]

You may need to "fine tune" the f/stop depending on the lens used. I have a 7Artisans 7.5mm f/2.8 fisheye that I have to set at f/11 instead of 16.

 

[Kirkp]

The Sunny 16 rule doesn’t mean that you must shoot at f/16, 1/125sec and 100 ISO. If you want to shoot at a different f/ stop, you simply change the shutter speed or ISO to compensate.

The Sunny 16 rule can be useful for unusual lighting conditions where the camera’s program might make a choice that isn’t artistically pleasing. I think some street photographers tend to use it so that objects that should be dark (such as alleys or shadowed faces) come out dark on the photo. Making use of both the Sunny 16 and zone focusing, they can make shot after shot in fully manual mode without changing any settings at all, which could be quite useful for those of us who use legacy lenses with depth of field markings.

https://www.petersussex-streetphotography.com/2017/11/19/the-sunny-16-rule/

If I’m not sure if I trust the camera to make the right choice I usually just bracket the shot, but sometimes I’m tempted to go old school with the sunny 16 rule. The rule can be expanded to different lighting situations:

   ---            

The sunny 16 rule can also be useful for moon shots. After all, the moon is in daylight. Most cameras will try to expose for the sky, overexposing the moon. However, since the moon is about as dark as asphalt, I think most moon photographers use the similar “Luny 11” rule, which simply exposes by one more f/ stop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looney_11_rule

Oh, and it’s not really a rule any more than the “Rule of Thirds” is a rule. It’s more like a “rule of thumb”—usually getting you in the ballpark.

(I edited this a few times to expand and clarify.)

 

[Petrochemist]

You may need to "fine tune" the f/stop depending on the lens used. I have a 7Artisans 7.5mm f/2.8 fisheye that I have to set at f/11 instead of 16.

Unless the lens has very poor transmission it shouldn't affect exposure at all. Unifying exposure is the reason f numbers where invented.
Digital cameras still give reasonable results with 1-2 stops from 'optimum' exposure, and for some shots that might give the result a photographer wants, but that's nothing to do with the lens. But it could be there were 'hazy' conditions when you determined this, which are a little darker than the full sun baseline of sunny 16.

The only regular exception I know of is mirror lenses which are generally rated without taking the central restriction into account giving rise to optimistic apertures being quoted. In most cases the aperture for exposure with these is ~1 stop smaller than the listed value. I believe DOF will be that of the quoted f-number so they have SOME justification for this.

Sunny 16 is great if you don't have a meter, or for sense checking if you think its playing up. I have spent a lunchtime shooting entirely manually (focus, sunny 16 exposure, assigned WB etc) as a challenge. Results were generally perfectly reasonable. It needs a little more care than semi automatic shooting & doesn't normally have any advantages.
I may use it for selecting film speed based on conditions with some of my most primitive cameras - it basically already used for the box brownies which are single speed models & only offer two apertures effectively sunny or shade...

 

[Richard Crowe]

Being familiar with the "Rule of Sunny 16" has another advantage... Sometimes your in-camera meter may be inaccurate for a couple of reasons: First (but least likely) is because the camera or its meter might be off because it is not working due to a drop or some other reason. Second, you may have inadvertently added some other parameter int your shooting such as +/- exposure compensation you may have selected an ISO higher or lower that the ISO you desired, you may have left a CPL or ND filter on your lens or any number of other parameters.
If you are familiar with what the approximate exposure might be and your camera is selecting an exposure way out of the ballpark, (such as selecting 1/4000 at f/11 on a sunny day when your ISO is at 100) you can notice that you need to change a parameter or two to get correct exposure.
Knowing what the exposure "should be" in any given circumstance is quite important. When I shot motion pictures for the U.S. Navy, In-Country Vietnam, I knew that using my standard reversal 16mm color film (Ektachrome Commercial at ASA 16 with a Wratten 85 filter to convert the 3200 K. tungsten film to daylight). I knew that shooting at 24 FPS, the shutter speed of my Bell and Howell Model 70 Filmo Motion Picture Camera would give me between f/8 and f/11 outdoors in the bright Vietnamese sun. I could just about check my hand-held meter by that criteria/ If it didn't read between f/8 and f/11 in the bright sun, the meter was off...

 

[Drd1135]

In days of yore, the only thing run by the battery was the meter. Since the camera was otherwise mechanical, it made sense to have a set of rules for exposure that didn't rely on the meter. Of course, many of us were shooting B&W back then. I used Tri-X with a very forgiving latitude.

 

[Kirkp]

Keep in mind that Sunny 16 originated in the days of film. Film is much more tolerant of overexposure than digital. Digital is much more tolerant of underexposure than film. So after determining the Sunny 16 setting, you might want to reduce the exposure a bit when shooting digital, especially if the scene is high contrast. For example, doubling the shutter speed would reduce the exposure by one stop (one EV).

More info on how under- and over-exposure affect film vs. digital here:
https://petapixel.com/2019/05/02/film-vs-digital-this-is-how-dynamic-range-compares/

 

[Richard Crowe]

Black Elk...
Some indispensable things for a New Mexico photo trip are a CPL filter and less necessary but, very helpful; a graduated ND filter.
Also very handy is something to protect your camera from blowing dust that occurs frequently. When photographing in the Desert Southwest I will carry an Optech Rainsleeve in my camera bag or vest. Weighs next to nothing and can protect your expensive camera from blowing dust, a protective filter would also help if you intend to shoot in blowing dust.

 

[Black Elk]

Black Elk...
Some indispensable things for a New Mexico photo trip are a CPL filter and less necessary but, very helpful; a graduated ND filter.
Also very handy is something to protect your camera from blowing dust that occurs frequently. When photographing in the Desert Southwest I will carry an Optech Rainsleeve in my camera bag or vest. Weighs next to nothing and can protect your expensive camera from blowing dust, a protective filter would also help if you intend to shoot in blowing dust.

Thanks. I have a CPL. I will look into the sleeve.

 

[Drd1135]

Unless the lens has very poor transmission it shouldn't affect exposure at all. Unifying exposure is the reason f numbers where invented.
Digital cameras still give reasonable results with 1-2 stops from 'optimum' exposure, and for some shots that might give the result a photographer wants, but that's nothing to do with the lens. But it could be there were 'hazy' conditions when you determined this, which are a little darker than the full sun baseline of sunny 16.

The only regular exception I know of is mirror lenses which are generally rated without taking the central restriction into account giving rise to optimistic apertures being quoted. In most cases the aperture for exposure with these is ~1 stop smaller than the listed value. I believe DOF will be that of the quoted f-number so they have SOME justification for this.

Sunny 16 is great if you don't have a meter, or for sense checking if you think its playing up. I have spent a lunchtime shooting entirely manually (focus, sunny 16 exposure, assigned WB etc) as a challenge. Results were generally perfectly reasonable. It needs a little more care than semi automatic shooting & doesn't normally have any advantages.
I may use it for selecting film speed based on conditions with some of my most primitive cameras - it basically already used for the box brownies which are single speed models & only offer two apertures effectively sunny or shade...

Do you ever get to use Sunny 16 in the UK?

 

[Petrochemist]

Do you ever get to use Sunny 16 in the UK?

Yes - it works perfectly well in other lighting conditions if you know the full rule.
I've used it in woodland to give a guide in the past, giving an extra couple of stops when in the shade.
FWIW we've had quite a few days over the summer without any cloud and it works then even in it's most basic form. The could cover today looks like I'd need f8 as a starting point, and I doubt it will often be much better for the next few months.

 

[Drd1135]

Yes - it works perfectly well in other lighting conditions if you know the full rule.
I've used it in woodland to give a guide in the past, giving an extra couple of stops when in the shade.
FWIW we've had quite a few days over the summer without any cloud and it works then even in it's most basic form. The could cover today looks like I'd need f8 as a starting point, and I doubt it will often be much better for the next few months.

It was one of the first rules I learned with my first real camera, a Spotmatic. It worked well and I could usually successfully expose without the meter, especially given that I was shooting mostly B&W. Of course, I never thought of diffraction effects in those days because everything was FF.