The Mirrorless War (yt link)

[Tipton]

Can't comment on the Canon R, but there's still a lot going for these cameras mainly full compatibility with their respective DSLR mount lenses.

It seems to me that both are cameras designed to keep their respective DSLR users from switching to Sony; and they may be successful at that limited goal. But there's not a lot here to directly compete with Sony.

 

[WNG]

Ok Canon R does close the shutter when you turn it off. That's pretty awesome for a mirrorless camera. Says the guy who finally cleaned his sensor last week.

Regarding the use of the shutter to be closed to prevent dust contamination on the sensor....
don't know how wise this is to risk a relatively fragile shutter assembly to serve as a barrier. After years of living with my Sony, yes dust is a bigger issue, but considering what else has managed to reach the sensor face, oily droplets, bugs, sand; don't know if I'd want to be subjecting the shutter to it. I think remembering to use a blower and simply wet cleaning the glass layer of the sensor is preferable to replacing a shutter assembly.

I would rather have this an option in the menu.

 

[Ad Dieleman]

I think Thom Hogan has a way of putting things in a proper perspective and this latest article of his is no exception IMHO.

 

[Tipton]

Current summary of the Mirrorless War of 2018:

• Canon and Nikon have released their versions of the "Sony A7-2.5". Both are decent cameras but mainly designed to keep their customers in their respective camps
• Fuji has released the X-T3, a worthy successor to the X-T2 (which mostly beats the pants off the a6500, step it up Sony!) , and the GFX 50R, a medium format rangefinder style camera
• Panasonic is entering full frame with the L mount and Panasonic S1/S1R
• Sony is keeping mum.
• None of these have GPS, so they're all crap.

 

[davect01]

Current summary of the Mirrorless War of 2018:

• Canon and Nikon have released their versions of the "Sony A7-2.5". Both are decent cameras but mainly designed to keep their customers in their respective camps
• Fuji has released the X-T3, a worthy successor to the X-T2 (which mostly beats the pants off the a6500, step it up Sony!) , and the GFX 50R, a medium format rangefinder style camera
• Panasonic is entering full frame with the L mount and Panasonic S1/S1R
• Sony is keeping mum.
• None of these have GPS, so they're all crap.

Never needed GPS on my camera, clearly not a function any of the makers find important either.

 

[Strider64]

I think it's wise Sony is keeping mum, for if they weren't then some people would perceive it to mean that they're panicking.

 

[Tipton]

Never needed GPS on my camera, clearly not a function any of the makers find important either.

To each his own. But if my $300 Olympus compact has GPS (and an intervalometer!) I expect to see that on my $2500 Sony interchangeable lens powerhouse.

 

[bdbits]

There is a rumor Sony will announce the A7Siii in October, and perhaps an A6500 successor. They did announce at Photokina they are working on another 12 lenses, which will bring them up to 60 native lenses. And the third-party lenses seem to be exploding (loving Voigtlander right now myself).

Sony's attitude toward its new competitors seems to be "bring it on, welcome to the party, we've been doing this for a while now". I am sure they have been expecting it for some time, perhaps even wondered what took them so long. Honestly, I don't find any of the new competitor offerings all that compelling and there are not that many native lenses, either. As far as I know they are also all closed mounts, so anyone who wants to adapt will be looking at reverse-engineered adapters, so Sony will still beat them hands down on adapted lenses.

 

[JonathanF2]

I'm starting to find this whole camera war to be tiresome. Honestly, there's nothing new, that I couldn't shoot back in 2012. On top of that, while the tech in the cameras have improved, things like content delivery, software integration and faster distribution of media hasn't really improved. They're pumping more money and effort into beating a dead horse.

The only difference now, is that I'm a better raw photo editor so older and cheaper cameras are starting to appeal to me!

 

[Christop82]

There is a rumor Sony will announce the A7Siii in October, and perhaps an A6500 successor. They did announce at Photokina they are working on another 12 lenses, which will bring them up to 60 native lenses. And the third-party lenses seem to be exploding (loving Voigtlander right now myself).

Sony's attitude toward its new competitors seems to be "bring it on, welcome to the party, we've been doing this for a while now". I am sure they have been expecting it for some time, perhaps even wondered what took them so long. Honestly, I don't find any of the new competitor offerings all that compelling and there are not that many native lenses, either. As far as I know they are also all closed mounts, so anyone who wants to adapt will be looking at reverse-engineered adapters, so Sony will still beat them hands down on adapted lenses.

Rumor is sigma is making an ef to L adapter. They're also dropping their mount and adopting the L. If this is true, Panasonic FF will catch up on the adapted lenses front quickly.

 

[WNG]

Rumor is sigma is making an ef to L adapter. They're also dropping their mount and adopting the L. If this is true, Panasonic FF will catch up on the adapted lenses front quickly.

The other Sigma rumor is that they will be releasing their own mirrorless L-mount camera with a new Foveon sensor. Now that's interesting. The Foveon sensor concept is so superior to traditional sensors. If they can figure out how to improve the dynamic range to match current Bayer sensors from Sony, Sigma would have a winner on their hands.

 

[bdbits]

Rumor is sigma is making an ef to L adapter. They're also dropping their mount and adopting the L. If this is true, Panasonic FF will catch up on the adapted lenses front quickly.

Yes, I've read a little bit about the new L-mount-based consortium. That is actually the only one I really find somewhat interesting and potentially competitive, particularly with Sigma's involvement. Outside of that, though, they are only promising 10 lenses by 2020, and as far as I know the bodies will release some time in 2019. By then, Sony will almost certainly have released at least the A7Siii, and I suspect there will be more in 2019. And as far as I know, the L-mount specs are not open. This will limit to some degree the 3rd-party options for adapters and lenses, beyond whatever Sigma delivers. By contrast e-mount is open, which I believe is part of what has made Sony successful against Canikon. Everybody and their mother is making e-mount lenses now, and it seems to be gaining steam every day.

Sony has its weaknesses, to be sure, but they are rocking hard right now from my perspective. And they will not be standing still waiting for the others to catch up. In fact I am counting on this to force them to start taking care of the nagging things they should already have done - like on-camera goodies the competitors have (e.g intervalometer, or even maybe GPS for Tipton), and simple firmware changes they could have hired an intern to implement. I just don't see the competition really becoming a threat to Sony for another couple of years when their systems mature, and by then there should be an even higher bar.

I could be wrong of course. And that's fine. Everything is speculation at this point. Only time will tell who comes out on top.

 

[davect01]

There is a rumor Sony will announce the A7Siii in October, and perhaps an A6500 successor. They did announce at Photokina they are working on another 12 lenses, which will bring them up to 60 native lenses. And the third-party lenses seem to be exploding (loving Voigtlander right now myself).

Sony's attitude toward its new competitors seems to be "bring it on, welcome to the party, we've been doing this for a while now". I am sure they have been expecting it for some time, perhaps even wondered what took them so long. Honestly, I don't find any of the new competitor offerings all that compelling and there are not that many native lenses, either. As far as I know they are also all closed mounts, so anyone who wants to adapt will be looking at reverse-engineered adapters, so Sony will still beat them hands down on adapted lenses.

I think this is precisely why the A73 came out. "See we can make a reasonably priced FF with great specs."

And the Nikon and Canon offerings were pretty disappointing. At least two generations behind what Sony is doing.

 

[quezra]

Yes, I've read a little bit about the new L-mount-based consortium. That is actually the only one I really find somewhat interesting and potentially competitive, particularly with Sigma's involvement. ... And as far as I know, the L-mount specs are not open. This will limit to some degree the 3rd-party options for adapters and lenses, beyond whatever Sigma delivers. By contrast e-mount is open, which I believe is part of what has made Sony successful against Canikon. Everybody and their mother is making e-mount lenses now, and it seems to be gaining steam every day.

Well quite. The closing of other manufacturer's mounts isn't a big deal to me. More significantly, if Sigma has its own mirrorless camera (whatever the mount), they'll be making dedicated mirrorless lenses, and they wouldn't ever have the clout to restrict their designs to that mount alone. They'd practically have to be making them in E-mount. Which is win win win for us.

 

[Tipton]

I really appreciate Sony coming out with the A7iii for $2000 *first* because I think that drags down the price point for full-frame mirrorless for all the manufacturers. Fuji is doing the same with mirrorless medium-format, $4500 for medium is a very low price. Although I question the necessity of medium-format, it will very soon be within the price range of your average landscape shooter.

 

[JMM]

Personally, i wouldn't hesitate to switch to whatever offer the most, if i could justify the expense of switching system. Luckily for my wallet, Sony is still on top for my kind of work (micro/macro - so sensor performance is my no.1 priority). Anyway, more competition should be good for overall MILC sector development, and that's all good news for all of us, no matter which brand fanboys we are

 

[grillec]

Rumor is sigma is making an ef to L adapter. They're also dropping their mount and adopting the L. If this is true, Panasonic FF will catch up on the adapted lenses front quickly.

The statement of Sigma:
To our customers using SIGMA SA-mount cameras and lenses | Sigma Corporation of America

 

[JonathanF2]

The statement of Sigma:
To our customers using SIGMA SA-mount cameras and lenses | Sigma Corporation of America

Props to Sigma though, they still support their loyal customers (especially SA mount shooters) even through the transition. Another good reason to buy Sigma glass, you can use them on pretty much any mount!

 

[grillec]

Zeiss has announced the ZX1, a FF camera with 35mm/2 lens, 512GB SSD and Lightroom software.

 

[bdbits]

Photokina and weeks before (and likely after, Sony in Oct) have certainly put a lot on the table this year. Interesting times for photography aficionados and pros, for sure.